The art of Super Sonic. Options

[Guest_Jake_*]

Here's a Super Sonic discussion topic, but it's not just any discussion topic, see. I'm here to state just why I believe Super Sonic was ruined in episodes 32 and 38.

Rockman.EXE: But Super Sonic is like Sonic's alter ego. without him atleast 3 times it sucks. and yes SatAM did fine without Super Sonic but Archies eventually showed him...like in Issue 4. you cant have Sonic without Super Sonic...otherwise its not Sonic.

All right, let's see how things worked.

Episode 26: Sonic "dies" in the episode. Chris's bond with Sonic saves both of them as Sonic transforms with the Chaos Emeralds. He defeats Dr. Eggman in a matter of two seconds and heals Chris. Sonic almost decides to return to his original world but doesn't. Sonic's last-minute decision somehow gets Angel Island on Earth.

Episode 52: Sonic arrives and rescues Tails from Dr. Eggman's machine. Once again, he doesn't decide to play around very long as he simply destroys Dr. Eggman's Egg Fort and flies off to Amy's house.

What do these two episodes prove? That Super Sonic doesn't exist merely for looking cool in front of the other characters, or outlonging a fight that could have been won in five seconds flat but instead takes two minutes. This is the major flaw of episodes 32 and 38; Super Sonic's introductions have been prolongue way too long, and way too much. Twice is enough for the series, so why does Super Sonic have to appear once every three or four episodes. He gets tiring, that's what. Seeing him once in a while is good because it's a nice surprise, and even then he doesn't try to impress us with aerial stunts or aerobics, or try to imitate NiGHTS while battling or whatever. Sonic just doesn't care and only worries about getting the job done as soon as possible. Yeah, Perfect Chaos and the Biolizard may have made good game bosses (well, in your eyes, that is), but in Sonic X it is completely meaningless and takes away the meaning of Super Sonic. That's why Super Sonic is also getting old in the games, because he keeps showing up at the last boss. I prefer him to just not appear at all, and I liked Sonic Battle because of this.

Discuss.

[Guest_Rockman.EXE_*]

Anyways...Super Sonic was needed to beat Perfect Chaos and the Biolizard.
he couldnt have beat them on his own in his regular state. for one he cant beat Perfect Chaos in his regular state cause he wasnt strong enough and couldnt swim. for the Biolizard it was because he cant fly in space in his regular state so him a Shadow had to go Super. also the Biolziard gave Shadow probelms inside the ARK so that was more then enough proof that the need to turn Super to finish him off as quick as possible before the ARK crashed into the earth. when you see those difficult situations that regular Sonic cant fly nor swim its when Super Sonic his altered form takes the cake. if Sonic could not turn Super in both occasions Station Sqaure and Earth would have been totaled. he overkilled E99 and he couldve Chaos Controled in Ep52 if he wanted to without having to turn Super.

[Guest_Jake_*]

I'm sorry but what are you trying to prove by threatening me? It's useless and has nothing to do with the topic.

Speaking of topic, back on topic.

Now.

[Guest_Rockman.EXE_*]

read my edited post...

er...i read something else when i made that threat. i'll just delete it...

[Guest_Jake_*]

What I was saying was that the Sonic Adventure series could have been avoided all together. Though they were decent in the games, by using the storylines in Sonic X it didn't really improve Super Sonic's reputation or quality. Those episodes just weren't needed and the moment I finished watching episode 26 I felt that the following Super Sonic battles would ruin him.

[Turrican II]

Well, the Super Sonic instances at the respective climaxes of the Adventure 1 and Adventure 2 storylines were pretty much inevitable. Once the decision was made to use the game storylines it became impossible to do so probably without recreating the final showdowns with Super Sonic and later Super Shadow as well.

But while Super Sonic is certainly very cool, I am getting a little tired of the final boss of EVERY SINGLE GAME being battled as Super Sonic.

I mean, the very first scripted Super Sonic appearance made sense as it let Sonic save himself from a fatal plummet from high orbit, and the very first Super Sonic final boss was a great final showdown and necessary enough as Sonic himself certainly isn't going to be able to take down a spaceship on his own.

But then they took one great showdown and copied it, and copied it, and copied it, ad infinitum.

Still, I find it much easier to excuse the Sonic Adventure 1 final boss, as the setting was for once unique (being in daylight in a city on water) and I can't personally imagine how a malevolent god would be vanquishable without the usage of Super Sonic.

...The Super Sonic showdowns of the Advance series were trite as hell. More power to Sonic Battle for being the only game post-Adventure to NOT have a Super Sonic appearance at all.



But I've digressed. My point, roundabout as it may be, is that for original storyline purposes there have been only two Super Sonic appearances in Sonic X, and you do admit that those were definitely very good.

[Guest_YoshiAngemon_*]

Don't like the routine, just play the two games that don't have Sonic transforming into Super Sonic - Sonic 1 and Sonic Battle! At least in Sonic Battle, Sonic BATTLES Super Sonic in a way, since it's Emerl with the power of all 7 Chaos Emeralds!

[Guest_EvilLaugh_*]

The points stated I agree with, however, there is a possible way to somehow enjoy Super Sonic still and thats to make it obtainable like in Sonic 2 and 3. For instance, these game was as easy as hell to complete as when Super Sonic is obtainable, but that leaves you with the option of whether or not you want to complete the game properly or not. It means you can enjoy Super Sonic if you want and therefor keep both fans happy. I'm sure they should lay off Super Sonic all together and continue with the upgrade's idea (because I really enjoyed stuff like light dash and what not)

As for the Anime, I agree with Jake, and I will say that they did actually kill Biolizard unquestionably quick in the SA2 bit, it did feel prolonged. I suppose "It's for the kids" as Keenu Reeves put it when he explained the needless fighting in the movie.

[Mahzes]

I agree that Super Sonic shouldn't necessarily be in every Sonic Advance game, as that doees get a little old.

HOWEVER;

When it comes to the major 3D games, Sonic Team have no CHOICE but to put him in. Why? Because, with only one new 3D game every 3-4 years, all the (Super) Sonic fans would go ballistic and hate their guts if he didn't appear in a major game.

I personally don't mind him showing up every time. Besides, if you consider how much screentime Super Sonic gets out of 52 episodes (about 5 minutes), I certainly wouldn't call that overkill.

HOWEVER (again), I do think his appearances were a little unbalanced. The point in fact? He shows up four times in the whole series, three of which are in the space of 13 episodes. ONCE every 13 episodes (on average, because seeing him guaranteed every 13th ep would be predictable) would be a much better balance.

Whilst four times in the series is not overkill, three times in 13 episodes is. I think they should have put some distance between the SA1 and SA2 episodes.

[Guest_Rockman.EXE_*]

I agree that Super Sonic shouldn't necessarily be in every Sonic Advance game, as that doees get a little old.

HOWEVER;

When it comes to the major 3D games, Sonic Team have no CHOICE but to put him in. Why? Because, with only one new 3D game every 3-4 years, all the (Super) Sonic fans would go ballistic and hate their guts if he didn't appear in a major game.

I personally don't mind him showing up every time. Besides, if you consider how much screentime Super Sonic gets out of 52 episodes (about 5 minutes), I certainly wouldn't call that overkill.

HOWEVER (again), I do think his appearances were a little unbalanced. The point in fact? He shows up four times in the whole series, three of which are in the space of 13 episodes. ONCE every 13 episodes (on average, because seeing him guaranteed every 13th ep would be predictable) would be a much better balance.

Whilst four times in the series is not overkill, three times in 13 episodes is. I think they should have put some distance between the SA1 and SA2 episodes.

Agree'd thee SA and SA2 sagas shouldve been spaced out between 10 Episodes maxed. Super Sonic is my favortie character next to Knuckles. and i'd be ubber PO if Sonic Team left him out in the next major game...i just hope they dont do the predictable and have him fight just the final boss and thats it...maybe ACTAULLY let you play him in the levels...how many times have Sonic fans asked Sonic Team to do this and they just overlook it...even in SADv3 they didnt do it...and why the hell was SS in SADv3? GMel was a lame boss anyways...Sonic couldve took him down with the Magic Glove attack.

[Turrican II]

Even in SADv3 they didnt do it...and why the hell was SS in SADv3? GMel was a lame boss anyways...Sonic couldve took him down with the Magic Glove attack.

I'll field this one. Blue Blazer helped me figure it out, which resulted in the story making a lot more sense.

Basically, Gmel is the rebuilt Gizoid, so when it gets the 7 Chaos Emeralds it reverts back to its original programming, which you may recall was basically "Serve only ultimate power for war" and was last linked to the Final Egg Blaster at the end of Battle. So with the nifty transformation thing given to it by Eggman, Gizoid transforms into an imitation of the doomsday laser cannon, thus giving Sonic an excellent reason to go Super and defeat it before it, ya know, blows up the planet.

If there had been no Super Sonic in Advance 1&2, then there wouldn't really be much to complain about, as it was the first Advance title where Sonic actually had a reason to turn Super.
(Why the hell did he want to go to the Moon so badly anyway!?)

[サムライ エキドゥナ]

Okay. I have read the arguments so far, and I want to share my thoughts. I'll try answering some quotes, then I'll just state my thoughts.

Episode 26: Sonic "dies" in the episode. Chris's bond with Sonic saves both of them as Sonic transforms with the Chaos Emeralds. He defeats Dr. Eggman in a matter of two seconds and heals Chris. Sonic almost decides to return to his original world but doesn't. Sonic's last-minute decision somehow gets Angel Island on Earth.

Okay, lets listen to how this sounds. First, who ever said Sonic actually "died" in that episode. I admit, there may have been a scene to make it look like this, like when Super Sonic was telling Chris goodbye, but I think in that scene Sonic thought he was going to go home since he finally became super and could activate chaos control. He THOUGHT he was going home but instead, Angel Island came to earth. See, I've always believed that the power of the choas emeralds and chaos control was wild and had unpredictable effects. It was only untill after Sonic met Shadow that he learned how to harness it to his likings.

Anyways...Super Sonic was needed to beat Perfect Chaos and the Biolizard.
he couldnt have beat them on his own in his regular state. for one he cant beat Perfect Chaos in his regular state cause he wasnt strong enough and couldnt swim. for the Biolizard it was because he cant fly in space in his regular state so him a Shadow had to go Super. also the Biolziard gave Shadow probelms inside the ARK so that was more then enough proof that the need to turn Super to finish him off as quick as possible before the ARK crashed into the earth. when you see those difficult situations that regular Sonic cant fly nor swim its when Super Sonic his altered form takes the cake. if Sonic could not turn Super in both occasions Station Sqaure and Earth would have been totaled. he overkilled E99 and he couldve Chaos Controled in Ep52 if he wanted to without having to turn Super.

...Not to mention neither Sonic nor Shadow can breath in space in their regular form. I think the levels that made it look like they were in space in SA2, levels like Final Rush and Meteor Herd, were made just to look cool and provide an extra challenge. So I agree with you on all that, but your thoughts on episode 52... Maybe becomming Super was needed. Think about it this way, how easy is it to warp from one world to another, possibly in a different reality or dimension?

Plus, apon studying Chaos Control as an attack, it effects seem different. Doing it with just one emerald seems to only increase speed almost to a teleportation. Doing it with all 7 or in super form seems to allow you to manipulate time and space it self. The reason why they were able to make Ark revert back to a dormant state in ep 38.


Last of all, about the games, I can see why saving Super Sonic for the last boss can get boring, I can see how you might want to play Super Sonic in levels, but you need to understand something. Envoking the power of Super Sonic was only done when ABSOLUTELY NECESARY. For any other reason, Super Sonic is not needed. So it makes sence that his battles and appearances are breif. It would be even more redundant for an entire game to revolve around Super Sonic. But give the Sonic Team a little credit, they are trying to do better. Like how they brought back to life collecting chaos emeralds mannually in SH.

Having a balance of Sonic games that do and don't have Super Sonic, I have no thoughts on. If that's what you want, that's fine by me, I have no thoughts on it.

Finally, some think that there was not enough distance between the sagas or the eps where Super Sonic appeared. Maybe you're right, but I have no problem with it. I think their is enough space as it is. We all know that the total number of Super Sonic eps is a small fraction in the total number of eps of the entire anime. And since Super Sonic's appearance doesn't last for at most half an ep, that cuts the fraction down even more.

Those are my thoughts and I'm sorry if I was long and boring.

[Guest_Jake_*]

For me, Super Sonic didn't help the old games. Someone on SoaH City pointed out that there was absolutely no boss in Sonic 3 & Knuckles that couldn't have been reached without fifty rings, and he was right. Just hit the boss a few times and he's done in a matter of five seconds.

Also, what about Sonic 2? There are times when I don't want to transform into Super Sonic and whenever I had to jump the game forced me to anyway. After a while, it just didn't improve my respect for the games. Oh, and don't tell me that I should have used Tails instead, because in my opinion that's just being an arse.

I'm glad Super Sonic isn't a primary extra in the games anymore. It lets me enjoy the levels without turning into a cheap invincibility character.

Samurai Echidna: Okay, lets listen to how this sounds. First, who ever said Sonic actually "died" in that episode. I admit, there may have been a scene to make it look like this, like when Super Sonic was telling Chris goodbye, but I think in that scene Sonic thought he was going to go home since he finally became super and could activate chaos control. He THOUGHT he was going home but instead, Angel Island came to earth. See, I've always believed that the power of the choas emeralds and chaos control was wild and had unpredictable effects. It was only untill after Sonic met Shadow that he learned how to harness it to his likings.

...

Hence why I put them in "quotations," jor.

[Guest_Rockman.EXE_*]

If you dont want Super Sonic as an extra thats fine. but if your having probelms with him in Sonic 2 just enter the leve select code and dont enter the one that unlocks him...that should help you.

[Guest_Jake_*]

Aha, but what if I want to complete the game 100% without level select? There, u r teh pwned. (I think he bought it.)

[Guest_Rockman.EXE_*]

lol. you can play through without Super Sonic. i dont think Sonic 2 saved.

[GameBuddy]

To me, Super Sonic should in the future, be more of a reward. Such as, in the next 3D Sonic title, you collect fifty rings, after the Chaos Emeralds of course, and a SuperSonic meter, like Team Blast charges, press Z, and that's it. Your meter goes down, and rings charge it, BUT will not keep it going infinitely! Ther ya go, meter runs out, no more SuperSonic.
And need I remind you that SS has only been seen in Sonic X, no other series has placed him, so I enjoy it whenever I see him.

PS
Did you hack the site and change your memeber title, Jake?

[Guest_EvilLaugh_*]

SuperSonic in 3D?! Are you mad?! You'd probably end up flying off the edge in a matter of seconds due to lack of control, or a sudden change in camera view.

[Guest_Rockman.EXE_*]

not really...if Sonic Team made it have limitations like Sonic R...but that would be lame as hell...so it would be best if they used the NiGHTS style for Super Sonic. but he would have to have revamped levels of the regular ones. which IMO would be tight.

[GameBuddy]

Um...SuperSonic in SA? It worked fine. Just have big enough levels.

[Guest_Rolken_*]

If they just designed the levels to actually rely on skill in avoiding obstacles rather than putting nearly every level in the sky with bottomless pits all around, SuperSonic would make things interesting.

[Guest_YoshiAngemon_*]

You all expect Sonic to hop on a shining cloud and fly away, fly away? (sort of a Cha-La-Head-Cha-La reference! LOL!) If Sonic were to use Flying cloud, Maybe it would work perfectly, instead of having to resort to Super Hedgehog Mode! He'd be just like Goku!

This post has been edited by YoshiAngemon: Sep 25 2004, 04:14 AM

[Guest_SonicChaos0_*]

It worked fine

Or do you mean that it would work fine?

Yeah they really need to bring back the ability to change into Super Sonic during regular gameplay. But just as like in the old Sonic games it would make it so easy to beat it but in an extremely fun way.

[LordF]

continuing from SonicChaos0,

If you do change into Super Sonic, you get a different path to what Sonic would get, more enemies to keep you busy and less rings to keep you as him.